I had an interesting on Friday. I thought I was feeling better (I was wrong), so I headed out for a bit.
This REALLY drunk guy, Dick, asked this woman and I if we believed in God. I was thinking, "Ohhhh crap... Let's not do this."
The lady, Melissa, immediately said, "No." He asked her why and she said because there's no physical proof.
He asked me and I said, "I don't know. I don't believe anyone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is or isn't a higher power."
I could tell he was bothered by what Melissa and I said, so I just said, "Alright. We have three different perspectives here - an atheist (Melissa), an agnostic (me) and a deist (Dick). Hooray for differences of opinion. Let's drink! Cheers!"
Nope, that didn't work. So Dick started preaching. He was so wasted. He was slurring, repeating himself, etc. He was talking about, "It's all about good and evil. There's good and there's evil."
I then said, "Well, aren't the concepts of 'good' and 'evil' kind of subjective? What I or some culture may deem as 'good' another may view as 'evil' and vice versa. Also, while a person may be seen as 'good' overall, he or she will have made their share of mistakes, what one may see as 'evil,' so then if we go by your philosophy, how are we to see him/her? As 'good' or 'evil'? It seems pretty subjective to me."
He said, "No, it's objective."
I then said, "Okay, then define 'good' for me."
He said, "Good is the light. Evil is the dark" or something like that.
He told Melissa when she asked if she was good or evil, he actually told her, "I think you're good, but you have a tendency to go do the dark side" or something like that and she flipped out.
She had a few drinks by this point, got in this guy's face and let him have it, saying things like, "Who are you to judge us? Evil? Dark side? Look at you! You're wasted! You're going to drive home drunk! You have a wife and kids to worry about and are sacrificing all of that for alcohol! No, no. I'm sick of your preaching! We're at a bar! We're drinking alcohol, smoking, swearing...don't you dare talk down to me like you're all high and mighty! What makes you right? What makes you special or chosen?"
I agreed with her, but played the peace-keeper and tapped her on the shoulder and tried lightening the mood a bit. It worked. So, he then started talking to me and he asked if Melissa and I believe in Planned Parenthood. It's this government-funded program which aids women with regard to health and pregnancy. There has been some controversy surrounding them in Republican circles, because they do provide services for abortion. However, Republicans have been told and continue to state that a large percentage of Planned Parenthood's spending goes to abortion. One such Congressman (Jon Kyl of Arizona) even said last year that "Over 90%" of the program's spending went to abortion. The real number? 3%. So the guy was only 87% off.
So, I brought up this fact to Dick and he said, "That's bullcrap!"
I said, "Okay then. What's the real number? Look it up. I can guarantee you the number is 3%."
I'm a numbers and facts geek. This is why people learn to not debate with me.
Then he looked at me and asked what year I was born.
I said, "How is that relevant to the conversation?"
He was all serious, so I told him and he responded with, "Do you realize when you were born your mother had the choice to have you cut up and destroyed through abortion?"
I simply said, "Yes, I know this. What's your point?"
Melissa then left to smoke and Dick again started talking to me about "good" and "evil" and I said the same thing I did before, about how I didn't think in black and white terms. I saw things as gray. I don't think I'm simply a "good" or "evil" person. I'd like to think I'm a decent person for the most part, but have my flaws, have made mistakes and know that while I may be like a god in someone's eyes, I'm the direct opposite in another's. I am who I am and am continually trying to expand and improve myself. This is what I told him.
So he then went to the extreme and said, "What about the Holocaust? Do you believe that happened?"
I said, "Well, yes, there is very strong physical evidence that occurred, so yes, I do."
He then said, "Was that 'good' or 'evil'?"
I said, "I think that was one of the most, if not the most atrocious act(s) in the history of mankind."
He then asked again, "But was it 'good' or 'evil'?"
I told him, "I told you what I think. I can't even fathom how awful that was, but I'm not going to label everything as 'good' or 'evil' as you. I'm not a black and white thinker. We're on two completely different wavelengths here."
He then said and I quote, "You're evil."
I kind of laughed and said, "Okay."
He then said, "You're the devil."
I laughed again and said, "Alright."
He continued, "You're a motherf**er."
I wanted to say, "Well, it depends how hot the mother is," but didn't. At that point, I just kind of laughed and walked away. I told the bartender I wanted my tab, because this guy was aggravating me big time. She then yelled at him and he started talking to someone else about religion.
This guy then came up to me, put his arm around me and said something like, "Where evil is, the devil is always present" or something like that.
I don't know. ::shrugs::. So, the next time I venture there, I may dress in a devil's costume or something...or maybe The Pope. Hopefully he'll be present to see that spectacle.
This REALLY drunk guy, Dick, asked this woman and I if we believed in God. I was thinking, "Ohhhh crap... Let's not do this."
The lady, Melissa, immediately said, "No." He asked her why and she said because there's no physical proof.
He asked me and I said, "I don't know. I don't believe anyone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is or isn't a higher power."
I could tell he was bothered by what Melissa and I said, so I just said, "Alright. We have three different perspectives here - an atheist (Melissa), an agnostic (me) and a deist (Dick). Hooray for differences of opinion. Let's drink! Cheers!"
Nope, that didn't work. So Dick started preaching. He was so wasted. He was slurring, repeating himself, etc. He was talking about, "It's all about good and evil. There's good and there's evil."
I then said, "Well, aren't the concepts of 'good' and 'evil' kind of subjective? What I or some culture may deem as 'good' another may view as 'evil' and vice versa. Also, while a person may be seen as 'good' overall, he or she will have made their share of mistakes, what one may see as 'evil,' so then if we go by your philosophy, how are we to see him/her? As 'good' or 'evil'? It seems pretty subjective to me."
He said, "No, it's objective."
I then said, "Okay, then define 'good' for me."
He said, "Good is the light. Evil is the dark" or something like that.
He told Melissa when she asked if she was good or evil, he actually told her, "I think you're good, but you have a tendency to go do the dark side" or something like that and she flipped out.
She had a few drinks by this point, got in this guy's face and let him have it, saying things like, "Who are you to judge us? Evil? Dark side? Look at you! You're wasted! You're going to drive home drunk! You have a wife and kids to worry about and are sacrificing all of that for alcohol! No, no. I'm sick of your preaching! We're at a bar! We're drinking alcohol, smoking, swearing...don't you dare talk down to me like you're all high and mighty! What makes you right? What makes you special or chosen?"
I agreed with her, but played the peace-keeper and tapped her on the shoulder and tried lightening the mood a bit. It worked. So, he then started talking to me and he asked if Melissa and I believe in Planned Parenthood. It's this government-funded program which aids women with regard to health and pregnancy. There has been some controversy surrounding them in Republican circles, because they do provide services for abortion. However, Republicans have been told and continue to state that a large percentage of Planned Parenthood's spending goes to abortion. One such Congressman (Jon Kyl of Arizona) even said last year that "Over 90%" of the program's spending went to abortion. The real number? 3%. So the guy was only 87% off.
So, I brought up this fact to Dick and he said, "That's bullcrap!"
I said, "Okay then. What's the real number? Look it up. I can guarantee you the number is 3%."
I'm a numbers and facts geek. This is why people learn to not debate with me.
Then he looked at me and asked what year I was born.
I said, "How is that relevant to the conversation?"
He was all serious, so I told him and he responded with, "Do you realize when you were born your mother had the choice to have you cut up and destroyed through abortion?"
I simply said, "Yes, I know this. What's your point?"
Melissa then left to smoke and Dick again started talking to me about "good" and "evil" and I said the same thing I did before, about how I didn't think in black and white terms. I saw things as gray. I don't think I'm simply a "good" or "evil" person. I'd like to think I'm a decent person for the most part, but have my flaws, have made mistakes and know that while I may be like a god in someone's eyes, I'm the direct opposite in another's. I am who I am and am continually trying to expand and improve myself. This is what I told him.
So he then went to the extreme and said, "What about the Holocaust? Do you believe that happened?"
I said, "Well, yes, there is very strong physical evidence that occurred, so yes, I do."
He then said, "Was that 'good' or 'evil'?"
I said, "I think that was one of the most, if not the most atrocious act(s) in the history of mankind."
He then asked again, "But was it 'good' or 'evil'?"
I told him, "I told you what I think. I can't even fathom how awful that was, but I'm not going to label everything as 'good' or 'evil' as you. I'm not a black and white thinker. We're on two completely different wavelengths here."
He then said and I quote, "You're evil."
I kind of laughed and said, "Okay."
He then said, "You're the devil."
I laughed again and said, "Alright."
He continued, "You're a motherf**er."
I wanted to say, "Well, it depends how hot the mother is," but didn't. At that point, I just kind of laughed and walked away. I told the bartender I wanted my tab, because this guy was aggravating me big time. She then yelled at him and he started talking to someone else about religion.
This guy then came up to me, put his arm around me and said something like, "Where evil is, the devil is always present" or something like that.
I don't know. ::shrugs::. So, the next time I venture there, I may dress in a devil's costume or something...or maybe The Pope. Hopefully he'll be present to see that spectacle.
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